[Madrid, 11-10-10] EW 2010 Vintage All Stars - Deck Breakdown y Top 8 Decklists

[Zanketsull]

ça devait plus probablement être que les joueurs de zbs s'attendaient (à raison) à un méta control/combo.

[belcherized]

Juste quelques interrogations :
1) Dans ZBS, Nihil Spellbomb est pas strictement supérieure à Tormod's Crypt? Elle fait cantrip, ce qui est une vraie amélioration! Elle coute 1 de plus, mais est-ce que ça peut faire perdre beaucoup de parties là où Tormod ferait gagner (je pense au storm qui est plus facile avec Crypt) ??
2) Dans la liste du 4ème, il n'y a ni Tormod ni Nihil. C'est pas une vraie erreur de building? Contre Triple-Emrakul-Oath, il lui est simplement impossible de gagner pré-side, vrai?

[Zanketsull]

1) Pas forcément. Le coup de 1 en plus, personnellement je le trouve très ennuyeux. Genre, avec tormod's, tu peux le jouer gratos, repeal pour U, hurkyl's, re-tormod's, tu saques, Ywill, re-re-tormod's... Si à chaque étape tu dois rajouter 1 de plus, ça alourdit clairement la machine. De la même manière, tormod's permet d'utiliser academy directement t1 si tu n'as pas d'autres artos.
En gros, imho, on retombe sur le même type de débat que pour hurkyl's / rebuild : est-ce que payer 1 de plus pour un petit effet kisscool vaut la chandelle ? Débat interminable...

2) Exact, il peut juste jouer trall en réponse à la capa d'emrakul. Je pense que c'est un choix, Quentin m'avait proposé de faire ça sur mon zbs unpow. En gros, tu acceptes de te faire retourner contre emrakul, ou si tu n'as pas un freeze léthal et que l'autre a accès à Ywill. En contrepartie, tu libères 2 slots qui, suivant le méta, peuvent ne pas être optimaux.

Pour la 2e liste d'almost, ce qui me marque c'est l'absence de mana drain ou de spell pierce... Avec des duress à la place, pour la même disruption que TPS au final. Je suppose que son gameplan, ça devait pas mal tourner autour de mind's...

[CwaM]

j'ai du mal avec 4 confidant dans le deck du 1er qd mm

couplé a 2 jace, 1 sphionx, 4 fowet 4 thoughtcast, y a moyen de perdre tout seul :\

[CHaPuZaS]

Remember that this was an invitational event with the best and most renowed players of Spain so many players were able to read the metagame (Maindecking REB, not sideboarding or expecting against Oath/Dredge, etc...).

And about my Tezzcast build... I never died against my Confindants, and that's much to say, because most of Confidants decks lost a game or two against its draw engine. Test it. When playing against blue, it performs very well.

[breed]

Thanks and congrats Chapuzas!

I will try your last evolution of TezzCast (I already played old ones).

;)

[Peach]

Hi, this is Guillem (2nd @EW All Stars invitational) :)

This deck proved doing really well in a "controlled" metagame. The side needs a bit of tweaking as the deck was metagamed for a ComboControl/Mud meta with barely any Dredge, Fish or Oath.

My pairings went like: Dredge (2-0), TPS (2-o), MUD (2-1), Almost UBRg (1-2), MUD (2-1), Tezzcast (ID into top 8), GAT (2-0), MUD (2-1), Tezzcast (1-2).

MD tormod´s proved really useful game 1. Specially for uping storm prior/after YW and with Desire. I always played NSB in second game when playing more controlish style.

Have any of you tried an update version of ZBS?

I would love to share some thoughts as this is not a wide common commented archetype  :D

[Zanketsull]

Have any of you tried an update version of ZBS?

I would love to share some thoughts as this is not a wide common commented archetype  :D

Hi,

I don't know if this can be useful to you... I've been playing for quite a while a home made version of Zbs unpow, while testing also the powered lists. But curiously, my unpow build and your pow list show huge similarities. The main noticeable difference (appart from being pow/unpow), are the 3 repeal slots, that I completely abandonned, considering that they were a poor choice in a control/MUD metagame.

Instead, I was highly convinced by 3 lim dul's vault, which interact greatly with the rest of the deck. You can play LDV at the EoT, get an awesome topdeck, put a gush on top of it and go ftw. It lets you tutor for fastbond or any other bomb, sometimes with a backup, and the trick with gush lets you draw both. It also shunts jace, and tutor for Ywill when you want to play a brainfreeze-powered Ywill.

Ah, and I totally support tormod's crypt MD too. This is so often totally unexpected, that you can sometimes catch your opponent with his pants down, or even force him to make mistakes.

Nevertheless, Zbs is not often played in France. You spanish people have a more favorable metagame, with many combo or control/combo decks. ;)

PS : by the way, i loooove your Zbs list. ;)

PS2 : By the way, will you write a report about your performance ? As you said, there is so few topics about Zbs, that a report from the 2nd@EW would be a good basement.

[Peach]

Hi Zanketsull,

Thanks for your comments on the topic. I haven´t tried LDV as I think one of the greatness of the deck is try to stay "blue" almost as possible. Thus playing just 3 black spells and 2 green ones.

I forgot to say I attended LCV 2 weekends ago performing a 4-2 (losing to GAT and MUD and winning against 3 aggro decks and 1 storm deck) with the very same list I played @Vintage All Stars.

Repeal is part of the drawing shell and backbone of the deck to generate 12-15 or more spells in order to finish the Enemy.

I still have to find a good sideboard plan against extreme hate (there are some hateful decks in LCV playing with drains, thoughtseizes, pierces, fow, 4 Mindbreak and extirpates in the board). Any suggestion?

[astre]

i've been facing this kind of deck tonight and went 0-6 in the match up :/
I've been thinking about switching to kind of GAT style +3 toughsize +4 tarmogoyf - kill stuff
have you tried id? what was your side in the final of madrid?

btw i loved your deck.
actually i can't find a change to make on it :o

one small question i'm still not sure : drain or spellpierce ? do you have any idea on that?

[lowkick]

here are some hateful decks in LCV playing with drains, thoughtseizes, pierces, fow, 4 Mindbreak and extirpates in the board)

Are they successful?  Is there a list available somewhere?....

[astre]

here are some hateful decks in LCV playing with drains, thoughtseizes, pierces, fow, 4 Mindbreak and extirpates in the board)

Are they successful?  Is there a list available somewhere?....

jacerator and madness are good exemples of wall of counter.dec :/

[Peach]

@astre:
My side for the EWAS (already in the post by César):


1 Forest
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Nature's Claim

My gameplan is switching to 4 tarmos 3 thoughtseize in this kind of counterwall matchup. The side is intended to buy time versus Workshops and also have a gameplan versus Jester´s and Counterwall.decks.
That´s why I was thinking on playing 2 Xandid Swarm on board for 2nd game. However, this is a really metadependant deck due to the sideboard configuration/needs.

Regarding Pierce vs. Drain, I have tried both with similar results. On the main differences, I have to highlight that playing with maindeck tormod´s allows you to be less scared of Yagmothswin thus it´s safer to play with pierces if you want to try them. It´s kind of meta depandant too,  as I believe you need drains to stay alive versus decks playing Vault to reach turn 3-4 and win.
IMHO Drains are better :)

@lowkick:
You can build a Jazzerator deck without green changing Trigons and Claims for more Counters (as Jacerator is focused on winning MUD matchups and control) like more drains, traps, etc... That kind of deck totally anihilates combocontrol or straight combo (althought it loses to other kind of more aggroish archetypes). It´s good to heavy test a build of ZBS or Almost against this counterwall as when facing any control matchup in a tournament you will never face a worst deck than your testing one (just decks with less counters :_D)

[astre]

thanks a lot!
our answers fit my feelings. :D
I just didn't have the testing as back up  :oops: