EDH - Kaalia of the Vast @ MTGS by 0/2Drop.
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Auteur Fil de discussion: EDH - Kaalia of the Vast @ MTGS by 0/2Drop.  (Lu 15988 fois)
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@Dubai


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« le: 26 Novembre 2012, 12:43:43 »

Salut,

Je viens de faire un gros post sur MTGS dans Commander Multi. victoire!
Je vous le partage ici, c'est écrit en Anglais enfin à ce que je sâche !  Mr. Green
Of course, je speak de nous dans la mini-intro.
C'est aussi grâce à vous que j'ai amélioré mon deck donc special thanks ;-)

Hello everyone,

I’m from France and enjoy some Multiplayers EDH here with some friends at restaurant. We usually play before and after dinner.
We are «casual-competitive» as we say !  The kind of words who make us laugh a lot when someone make something really broken/amazing on the table and apologize with a «hey i’m casual competitive» ! Surprised

It’s kind of funny cause for France, EDH is 1v1 here with our own ban-list, you know and is not so casual as multi-game we do.
Btw, that’s a really great format, if you wanna try, i would be glad to share you some tought and  decklist to work with !

Well, come back to Commander !
I have post here and on other Kaalia thread.
I play the deck for 2 years now and seriously for 1.
We make deckbuilding with a friend of mine (G.S. if you read ;-) ) but we can’t test a lot together cause of distance so we make change independant of each other and share a lot of tips/tricks and THIS IMPROVE THE DECK A MAXIMUM.
      


Without waiting here is the visual-decklist :
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck.php?281153

A picture of my own


The first thing i want to share to you is something you could apply in many many of your build, i call it «the soul» of an EDH deck.

You have 3 question to ask to you before make change of a card.
How that card improve my position in a game ? (speaking about the mind of your deck and what he have to do to win the game)
WHY would I need that card ? (it’s suppose WHEN also. Is that a problem i have to go-off my strategy ? a card who is totally stupid against ONE straightforward strategy of a friend ? or totally versatile and usuable in EVERY situations ?)
WHAT that card do with an other ones ? (Keep in mind «combo» or tricks you could do with a card, don’t go more than ONE other card on your deck, the stupid jhonny 4 card combo will be in game not on paper)

All that question come in mind automatically for regulars players of EDH but for news guys, try to think about it. :rolleyes:

You know your decklist when you can explain why this card is here, why this one is not, that take many times, time of deckbuilding, research on the gather, time of test, sometimes some Rules’s asking to a judge to know if that work in the correct way...

A 100 card seem amazing to try to build at first but it’s when you have already 110 cards on the table, thinking at 20 others and have to make cut to put it at the magic number wich is difficult. :-/

After having try all the aspect of the spectrum that deck give to us, I will present to you a build of Kaalia which is not :
too much voltron
reanimator based
all-in sunforger
PW control

But at a version in the middle of all that things, to have as much choice as possible about the game state and act in different manners.

When i come here to find hidden gems for the deck after build it on my own I feel that Blueram’s primer was the decklist i was the most close at that time. Even if our decklist have evolued differently with time, he is the guy who keep the same mindset about the build, so i choose to post here my thought about the deck.
Thanks to him for all he do, keep tryin’ card, update list and move in/out.

I will speak about every slot of my deck and explain why they are here.
 I will also speak about card who don’t make the cut at the same place and why but.

The draw engine i choose is not enchantement based or creature based, it’s the Skullclamp draw engin. This equipement don’t fit well in many deck but here, we play big dude with awesome CITP, we have to recover from our nightmare : the wrath effect so this equipement go perfectly inside
I add 3 spell to make him better : Bitterblossom, Bloodghast and Lingering soul.

You have to choose your draw engine before make choices on the deck. The draw engine take 4 slots for me : Skullclamp, bitter, bloodG, LS. In addition of the Phyrexian arena and his body : bloodgift demon, and of course ALL the creatures of the deck.
Spell like Siphon mind are also inside this deck.
You could run an other draw engine, no one is better, i just tend to don’t like creatures based draw engine like Graveborn muse or slow draw engine.
Pay 1 to draw 2 as a ritual is great for me.

All this make possible to run fewer but better creatures, i see many Kaalia deck with 30+ big dude, and they are not all that great. A 7 slot draw engine and 23 big dude is better and will always be. Keep it in mind.

This deck also die terribly on a Wrath-effect so i try to play as many card around that as possible. I play a lot of different card who are great at a good recover. Including the draw engine who is friendly with a destroy creatures effect.

        [CARD] Arid Mesa[/CARD]
[CARD] Bloodstained Mire[/CARD]
  [CARD] Flooded Strand[/CARD]
[CARD] Windswept Heath[/CARD]
[CARD] Marsh Flats[/CARD]
[CARD] Scalding Tarn[/CARD]

6 fetchland, the 3-stars (B/R, R/W, W/B) and one other of each color. I don’t like to go to 9 fetchland in Commander because you dig too much and many times with all that tutors we have, you don’t want to shuffle.

 [CARDS]Scrubland
        Badlands
Plateau
Blood Crypt
Godless Shrine
Sacred Foundry[/CARDS]

Hey, well, here they are. You can fetch them to adapt and fix your mana.
Grab Rav-land first, when you don’t need the mana or EOT’s opp to try to not draw them and take 2.

      

     [CARDS]   Clifftop Retreat
Dragonskull Summit
Isolated Chapel[/CARDS]

The deck play a lot of Basic and Dual/Rav, they never come tapped.

       [CARD] Command Tower[/CARD]

Where we are, we see the battlefield from this tower. Never forget that.
Btw i don’t need other situational 3-color land because the manabase is already very good. It’s many time a mistake to play Exotic Orchard or reflecting pool, you got color-death more than fixed.
I wish they make a 3-color Alara CIPT land for us.

      
       [CARDS] Fetid Heath
   Graven Cairns
Rugged Prairie[/CARDS]

First i put them in, then i put them off, and finally they come back. Those don’t make the cut every times, but here they are huge.
How many times I want BB on turn 3 and WW on turn 4, those land make it easier.

You know, i want to stay focus on the board, i don’t like to think too much when i fetchland, or hate when i fetch a safe-basic and draw a WW or BB card after.
They take the place of the 3 «miss-fetchland» and the manabase is really better with them.
    
      
      
     [CARDS]   Orzhov Basilica
 Rakdos Carnarium
Boros Garrison[/CARDS]

Another 3 land who don’t fit in many others EDH ! Again, why don’t play lands who fix us and ramp us, this land allows us to do a regular turn 4 kaalia AND a turn 5 kaalia if she got killed, they make the cut.
When you play this on turn 2, you have to discard, animate dead is sometimes in your hand at this moment :-)
      
      
            
        [CARD]Shizo, Death's Storehouse[/CARD]

That’s the only «boost» land who make the cut. First of he gave us B, wich is not bad with filter land and he allows to attack safely and the right person.


        [CARD]Volrath's Stronghold[/CARD]

A reanimator land, I take it ! He works perfectly with High Market to make some absurds situations.

       [CARD] Wasteland[/CARD]

A maze of ith could be lethal for us. He could kill some other utility land also.

      [CARD] High Market[/CARD]

I play Homeward path at first to avoid the control magic-like, but High market give me the possibility to trigger LTB and keep protect me from control magic, the best add on the manabase for times !
Thinking about Kokusho, Yosei, Harvester of souls and others tricks...


                     [CARD]Ancient Tomb[/CARD]
We want 2 ! Every day, sol-land !
That’s the only one who make the cut, Temple of false god dissapoint me a lot.

      

      [CARDS]  2 Mountain
        5 Plains
        5 Swamp[/CARDS]

I love basic, they do nothing but they are here and don’t die into Ruination or wasteland/tectonic edge... I play crucible of worlds so i love to fetch basic a lot when the engine is ON.
2/5/5 is perfect cause you need to be able to fetch red but you never need RR outside the dragon.


The big part of this deck is about the creatures choices.
You want big badass but you also want guys who make/share a same effects to be redundant and have a well organized plan.
I have order them by Package.


The survivor pack, they are here to protect you from an army, lifelink Banslayer and Kokusho. Reduce damage with Gisela. I put her on the survivor pack cause i really enjoy reduce damage more than the boost, no one attack you with gisela on your board.
Kokusho is really annoying for the table with High market, with Volrath’s stronghold ?

 [CARD] Baneslayer Angel[/CARD]
[CARD] Kokusho, the Evening Star[/CARD]
[CARD] Gisela, Blade of Goldnight[/CARD]



The stupid package.
I think they will go away in a near future if WOTC continue the power creap for better CTP effect with same body ?
For moment, i love them and they fit perfectly here. Maybe the red-one will move for the new dragon who steal artefact.

      [CARDS]  Akroma, Angel of Fury
        Akroma, Angel of Wrath[/CARDS]
      
    
The protection package, they allows you to be safe, play around spell or protect you from a player to go off.
      
[CARDS]Iona, Shield of Emeria
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Mother of Runes
Yosei, the Morning Star[/CARDS]



The reanimator package, after trying many spell or reanimator issues i find that thoses creatures are the best way to go.
They make an awesome card advantage and abuse the CTP of our others creatures.

[CARDS]Karmic Guide
Angel of Serenity
 Reya Dawnbringer
 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Twilight Shepherd[/CARDS]

The blast/boom/destroy package
They have wrath effect, finisher, make a way or stop a stupid things to happen CTP.
They fit perfect at cheating them with Kaalia.
[CARDS]Balefire Dragon
 Bogardan Hellkite
 Steel Hellkite
 Angel of Despair[/CARDS]

The tutors package They allow us to tutors some part of combo, i tend to use them to set-up my draw engine.
Stonehewer giant allow you to equip a Booted creature wich is really awesome.
How many time i use him when wrath or sacrifice effect is on the stack to pull off a Skullclamp and draw 2 out of nowhere.

[CARDS]Rune-Scarred Demon
 Stoneforge Mystic
 Stonehewer Giant[/CARDS]
      
  The draw engine package    They allow you to draw many many cards, bloodghast is a blast with skullclamp, he comes again and again, amazing add, that take me time before try it but WOW.
The two others are really great, i don’t like a Phyrexian arena on body but he do it great, Harvester of souls recover from a wrath effect by fulling your hand !  

[CARDS] Bloodghast
  Bloodgift Demon
 Harvester of Souls[/CARDS]

[SPOILER]For exemple :
Rakdos lord of riots don’t make the cut, on 90% of the game you have 2-3 big dude on hand at turn 5 (when kaalia attack) ALL the table wait for you to put 2 guys before wrath, with Rakdos you have to use his trigger to benefit from him or he is just a 6/6 flying trample uncastable ? So overextend into wrath is not my way to go, he don’t go in.
Aegis Angel was great but he do nothing on a booted creatures, he also don’t make the cut.
Feel free to ask for DUDE i don’t play.[/SPOILER]

Now the creatures need support, here is how i protect, draw, manage them.


The planewalker :
       [CARD] Ajani Vengeant [/CARD]
(tap permanant, make the way of little flying dude for kaalia)
       [CARD]  Elspeth, Knight-Errant [/CARD]
(pump to protect Kaalia, recover a wrath effect)
       [CARD]  Liliana Vess [/CARD]
(tutor effect, discard a one card combo opponents)

       The ramp, it’s always a question in EDH, ramp with spell or not, here we don’t have green and we want to sometimes make a turn 3 Kaalia but not too much. The ramp artefact is here to allow fast big play and fix mana base.

 [CARDS] Boros Signet
 Orzhov Signet
         Rakdos Signet
 Darksteel Ingot
   Sol Ring[/CARDS]

Crucible of worlds, more i play that card more i love her.
With a fetchland :
you remove land from your deck every turn,
you could abuse of a fresh Sensei’s divining top every turn,
you could fix your mana,

       [CARD] Crucible of Worlds[/CARD]
      
      i think i don’t need to speak about the following card
       [CARD] Sensei's Divining Top[/CARD]
      
EQUIPMENTS :
    
This card protect Kaalia and dude, a must have. When i start with the deck I tend to try to have them on board as soon as possible but with time i feel others equipement a better way to go into late game.

 [CARD]Lightning Greaves[/CARD]

The SUNFORGER PACKAGE
I play this card for only 3 month, i don’t know that card for a long time...
I don’t want to abuse too much of this one but it’s a blast ! Too too many tricks can be made with Stonehewer Giant and this one OUT OF NOWHERE !
I just can’t wait for Orzhov charm and Boros charm to be spoiled. One of them will have a remove effect for sure so i will cut Terminate and Unmake for them ! Hope they will not sucks...

       [CARDS] Sunforger

         Ghostway[/CARDS]
(you can now say no to a wrath effect, also make your creature trigger again)
        [CARD]Hide / Seek[/CARD]
(a very good answer to anything as a charm do)
       [CARD] Rakdos Charm[/CARD]
(i think i use it for the tormod’s crypt effect 75% of time, awesome against many reanimate effect, graveyard abuse, out of nowhere again !)
        [CARD] Swords to Plowshares [/CARD]
(Remove will always be amazing)
       [CARDS] Terminate
        Unmake[/CARDS]

Here is the 3rd equipement and his draw engine.
This little equipement is so strong. Thoses cards make a big hate at the table, if they use disenchant effect on this, you are far away without any draw cause you will have your others equipement/enchantement freeway.

[CARDS] Skullclamp
Bitterblossom[/CARD]
(2 free cards for 1 every turn)
[CARD]Lingering Souls[/CARDS]
(Allow you to draw 4 cards and re-use it after)

The little reanimator package, he start with 5 cards and WOTC print more and more creature with a reanimate effect so here are the best 2.

[CARDS] Unburial Rites
        Animate Dead [/CARDS]
(don’t forget about others graveyard)

The enchantements

       This is an insane enchantement in this deck, many people directly imagine him on Turn 2 and say only here he could do things great or you will take zillion damage.
For me he is here against wrath effect, you wrath ? ok i will have a bunch of 4/4 fly very soon.
Soul of EDH as i said, this include make another resiliant card with a different type (i.e. enchantement creatures maker)
        [CARD]   Luminarch Ascension[/CARD]

We are fair, we are fair, well ok we make really unfair things here but take an extra turn and tutor for a combo is REALLY UNFAIR, so please stay fair with us who are (un)fair.
                      [CARD]Stranglehold[/CARD]

Another draw engine : diversity i said, an enchantement and a spell, what else.
It’s all about Card Advantage !
     [CARDS] Phyrexian Arena
      Syphon Mind[/CARDS]

       The tutor package, i will not make all the links you can do but try to keep tutors for late game to adapt.
If you go first, people will adapt against you and they will have answer to your threats. Try to draw some cards before looking for a part of draw-engine, equipement...Try to not have a blank card on the table waiting for his others friendly-combo part.

 [CARD]Steelshaper's Gift [/CARD]
(i wanna tricks with sunforger ? draw cards ? protect dudes ?)
        [CARDS]Demonic Tutor
        Diabolic Tutor
        Vampiric Tutor[/CARDS]
(all cards in the deck, CHOOSE YOUR WEAPON @Quake)
        [CARD]Enlightened Tutor[/CARD]
(Draw ? Counter-Wrath ? No extra turn ? Equipement ?)

The mass removal package : this augure a lot of card advantage. 1 for 10 ? 1 for 5 ?
You will get a lot advantage about those effect cause the deck is built around to recover of a wrath and draw when creatures dies.
1 mass destroy, 2 wrath effect and a huge sacrifice spell are what the deck need to fight others and keep have advantage on the table.
     [CARDS] Oblivion Stone
        Damnation
        Wrath of God
        Syphon Flesh[/CARDS]
      
      
  The General :  [CARD]Kaalia of the Vast[/CARD]




Journalisée

@MtgTheSource : Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.
@MTG Salvation : i tell you one thing, if there's a folk on this earth who likes dem dredge, it's the germans. When germans tell you to go quad, you go quad ! do not question them... ever.  
@GenCon2012 - About report of BrianDeMars : Does it matter? He went 0-2 drop. I want to know what the people who actually won a match played.
@theManadrain - About the Deckname of Menandian : lol ok, what did you change a card or two and call it meandeck x? Sorry if my post ruins your hype for your upcoming 4 dollar article.
EDH 1v1 : Animar - Sigarda - Nin - Sidisi
EDH Multi : GAA4 - Omnath - Kiki-Jiki - Brimaz - Oloro - Kaalia - Kozilek
Modern : Merfolk
Legacy : Dredge "Quad'Lazer"
Vintage : PitchLong Oath
Grob
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« Répondre #1 le: 26 Novembre 2012, 17:44:32 »

ça plait, bien. mais je ne vois pas :
1) en dragon,  Escouflenfer d'Utvara
j'aime beaucoup le la façon dont il pond des 6/6 vol (de manière assez immonde)

2) En card-advantage Arrachage de crâne ,qui est redoutable en multi.

3) Vrille d'effroi n'est pas supérieur à Terminaison ? (personnellement je joue les 2)

Sinon, creuset n'est pas ban ? je m'y perds dans ces Banlists  Confused
« Dernière édition: 27 Novembre 2012, 16:57:58 par Grob » Journalisée



"La plume est l'interprète de l'âme : ce que l'une pense, l'autre l'exprime."

Don Quichot, Miguel de Cervantès
0/2Drop
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Messages: 466


@Dubai


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« Répondre #2 le: 26 Novembre 2012, 19:44:10 »

ça plait, bien. mais je ne vois pas :
1) en dragon,  Escouflenfer d'Utvara
j'aime beaucoup le la façon dont il pond des 6/6 vol (de manière assez immonde)

Oui il es assez énorme pour l'avoir aussi testé mais la place des thons est folle, il y'a déjà beaucoup de truc bien nice en ETB ou LTB.
Il as un effet que lorsqu'il attaque, il attaque souvent seul (puis avec ses potes).
Jouer Kaalia c'est prendre Wrath un tour sur deux et malheureusement il fait absolument rien à part mettre 6 à sa première et souvent unique phase de sauce.
Limite je mettrai Thundermaw hellkite au dessus puisqu'il empêche le mec de défendre avec ses volantes.

2) En card-advantage Arrachage de crâne ,qui est redoutable en multi.

Oui, je l'ai acheté en foil et je l'ai bien testé mais malheureusement elle ne convient pas du tout au pack.
J'ai essayer et en fait T5 tu as bien mieux à faire, souvent rejouer Kaalia.
Les jeux reanimator (Miméoplasme, noir ou Sharuum...) se gave sur ce genre de discard...
Les jeux U ont déjà pioché pas mal de cartes et cela ne les gène pas de discard.
En late game çà n'avance pas ton plan de jeu et çà ne freine pas forcément les autres.
C'est un peu comme jouer une Culpabilité d'Urza, même si c'est fort, çà ne sert à rien.

3) Vrille d'effroi n'est pas supérieur à Terminaison ? (personnellement je joue les 2)

Oui c'est largement au dessus mais c'est un rituel et tu ne peux pas le "cheat" sur Sunforger, Terminate et Unmask sont comme dit là temporairement en attendant d'avoir mieux (i.e. les charmes de Gatecrash)

Sinon, creuset n'est pas ban ? je mis perds dans ces Banlists

Pas en multi
Oui c'est ban en 1v1 puisque tu peux lock un mec sous wasteland, en multi si tu fais çà déjà tu le fais pas longtemps et tu perd la game.
Je vois vraiment la carte comme une assurance de land-drop, gueddon-proof as well :-)

Je ne joue pas Gueddon/Ravage of war ni cataclysme car c'est plus ou moins mal vu dans mon groupe et que de toute façon je fais des trucs bien assez dégueulasse pour pas avoir besoin de plus de hate  Mr. Green
Journalisée

@MtgTheSource : Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.
@MTG Salvation : i tell you one thing, if there's a folk on this earth who likes dem dredge, it's the germans. When germans tell you to go quad, you go quad ! do not question them... ever.  
@GenCon2012 - About report of BrianDeMars : Does it matter? He went 0-2 drop. I want to know what the people who actually won a match played.
@theManadrain - About the Deckname of Menandian : lol ok, what did you change a card or two and call it meandeck x? Sorry if my post ruins your hype for your upcoming 4 dollar article.
EDH 1v1 : Animar - Sigarda - Nin - Sidisi
EDH Multi : GAA4 - Omnath - Kiki-Jiki - Brimaz - Oloro - Kaalia - Kozilek
Modern : Merfolk
Legacy : Dredge "Quad'Lazer"
Vintage : PitchLong Oath
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